It’s just another day in professional wrestling. For reason, I’m a magnet for that stuff.”
CM Punk, The MMA Hour
Over an hour and fifty minutes, CM Punk answered questions asked by host Ariel Helwani. At first, Punk jokingly clutched a doll of Bret Hart “for emotional support”. The answers Punk gave, he knew would spark controversy, especially regarding his AEW and change of feelings on WWE since his return.
Whether you are someone who loves, hates, or is indifferent to the Second City Saint, as Punk’s own words attest, he attracts attention. When asked someone Punk says he wears his heart on his sleeve and will speak his mind.
For convenience, I have organized the conversation into segments, grouping some parts and changing the order to provide a clearer picture of CM Punk’s perspective and narrative.
New Haircut, Old Style
Before the heavy-duty questions, the most interesting part of this chit-chat was Helwani asking Punk about his change of hairstyle. In November, Punk had a fade. Now, Punk’s hair has grown out and is slicked back.
It resembles Punk’s haircut from the biggest and most well-known part of his WWE career from 2011-2013 when Punk was the WWE Champion and prominent figure in the WWE who set a modern record for the longest world title reign at 434 days.
The reason for the change, in Punk’s words, is to represent the different stages of his career, but it is also a throwback to reflect.
“I’m back home where I belong.”
Triceps Update and a Metaphor for WWE vs. AEW
When Punk was asked about the injury and recovery process for his right triceps injury, Punk felt optimistic about his recovery. Punk acknowledges he has a false sense of security. Even suggested that “the hockey player” in his head tells him to tape it up and still do Wrestlemania 40.
A phrase Punk repeated was “They are protecting me against myself”. Punk elaborates that he is trying to push protocols, but he’s listening to the doctors and people telling him to “pump the brakes”.
The tear was the same type as the one Punk experienced in AEW All Out 2022. It was not just the pain difference that was noticeable. The latest injury hurt worse but later in the chat, it became a metaphor to expand Punk’s feelings about the difference between AEW and WWE.
Post-Brawl Out said had no communication from AEW for six months. When the left one was injured in AEW, Punk had to pay for surgery, find a rehabilitation center and do everything for himself. WWE however have covered everything. The difference for Punk between the two companies is structure, protocols, and professionalism.
In terms of history repeating, Punk acknowledged his last Royal Rumble appearance where he also famously suffered a concussion, he “probably should have been taken out”. In the 2014 Royal Rumble, Punk’s last WWE match, Kane had to return and remove Punk before choke-slamming Punk through the announce table. Punk previously stated at the time when he told a doctor they asked Punk “What do you want me to do?”
As for the injury in 2024, Punk thought it was acceptable for him to make the call to continue.
The Return- No No-Compete and Nick Khan’s Importance
CM Punk received a call from Nick Khan on the Monday of the week of Thanksgiving. Five days before Survivor Series in Chicago. The initial call was for the Royal Rumble. Punk said Khan assumed Punk had a no-compete clause with AEW. He did not. Punk said that Khan responded by saying: “I really wish I knew that.”
Later, Punk described how Nick Khan, before joining WWE, tried to get CM Punk to return to the company in 2020. When asked, Punk stated if not for Nick Khan, he doubts he would have returned to WWE.
Before signing a contract, Punk talked to Triple H before the ball “really began rolling.” Triple H and Punk had a Facetime talk, where they started burying the hatchet before business. Things that Punk said seem silly now.
CM Punk’s contract was then done over the Thanksgiving period. Later Punk would state that when negotiations could have taken longer, he told Nick Khan the return had to be for Survivor Series.
That Raw Visit in 2023
Punk talks casually about the set of coincidences that led to him stopping backstage at WWE Raw in Chicago in April 2023 while still under an AEW contract.
Punk said that he had done commentary for a Cage Fury Fighting Championships show in Florida and was heading home on a flight, that coincidentally, WWE staff were also flying on. After speaking to WWE producer Jason Jordan, a funny incident where Liv Morgan helped Punk to find a lost set of air buds on the plane led to a text conversation with Bayley.
Bayley invited Punk backstage. With no wife or dog at home, so he went. Punk stated he is an “old-timer” and was not there attempting to get a job, “maybe free catering”.
Punk expected that he would be asked to go. He went to say hi to Bayley and a few people. Yet the response people with AEW felt they were “betrayed” when he visited WWE Raw. The expression on Punk’s face suggests he could not understand their issues. Context later came up that Punk had no contact from AEW after Brawl Out.
Interestingly, Punk felt this anger from AEW folks was the hypocrisy of him visiting people backstage compared to what talent could say things on the air. More on this later.
Punk’s Return Appearance
Punk suggested that the time between signing his contract and then debuting was seconds. “I signed and walked into gorilla.” His wife, Nick Khan, Triple H, and lawyers knew. His family he only let know on his way to the building.
Ariel brought up how Becky Lynch told him that her husband Seth Rollins was angry that he was not told of Punk’s return. Punk said he was in “the same boat” as everyone else. Claiming also the teases leading to Survivor Series, Shinsuke Nakamura mentioning “the best in the world”, commentary dropping hints, and a GTS being used was a surprise for him also.
The return for Punk was another high moment in his career. The crowd was so loud, Punk said, he could not hear his music. He described it as “ethereal”. When he got backstage, Punk said everything was pats on the back and hugs.
“100% a moment you do not want to end.” CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
WWE is Not the Same
It’s friendlier compared to the comparison when Punk got to WWE. The shark-tank, super competitive, judgemental attitude that Punk said he faced when he came was “brutal”. Punk describes how things are relaxed and laid-back.
However, before this Punk described his impact on the locker room. Punk describes how as an inspirational figure; he is aware of how he has influenced this current generation of wrestlers. Punk says that someone told him:
“I’m super glad you’re back here so you can experience the culture you created. You were a catalyst for this and then you left.”
CM Punk, The MMA Hour
Vince McMahon: A Hug and a Clear Stance
Punk talks about how following his Smackdown appearance he was “flying by the seat of his pants”. Being taken to NXT and then flown to get a tour of the new Titan Towers, he met Vince in the WWE HQ’s gym. While on a treadmill, on the phone to Nick Khan, Vince’s trainers came in and told Punk to get off the phone because Vince doesn’t like phones in the gym.
Vince gave Punk a big hug and said welcome home and let’s connect after working out. This did not happen. Punk bursts into laughter when telling Ariel: “Stuff come up”, referencing the Janel Grant lawsuit against Vince McMahon, which Punk addressed.
“There is no positivity there…I didn’t read all the allegations, but I read text messages, and I went “Oh F- this, this is indefensible”. CM Punk,
The MMA Hour
Rather than avoid it, Punk points out his initial thoughts were how dumb Vince was in leaving a paper trail. Then Punk said his biggest concern going forward there must be reparations and amends made to the victim/s.
Punk agrees with Helwani that the business is better off without Vince. Helwani said that if true, this behavior was evil. Punk said he had no idea about any real-life abuse and that this was Emperor Caligula in Rome where everything was out in the open. Like with his friendship with Chris Benoit, Punk described himself as pragmatic, it’s hard to reconcile but it’s sad.
“He ruined his life ruining other people’s lives… Part of me is like, good, we got him, now shuffle it into the basement.”
CM Punk, The MMA Hour
Wrestlemania Again
What’s interesting about this year’s Wrestlemania is where Punk stands regarding key decisions and the positioning of wrestlers on the card. In the past, Punk’s responses on Colt Cabana’s Art of Wrestling podcast infamously made clear his frustrations of not getting the main event slot and “semi-retired” wrestlers taking the spotlight.
Acknowledging he is himself now a semi-retired wrestler, Punk’s views have changed. First, seeing The Rock’s return as motivating and positive. Punk feels having the Rock on TV gets more eyeballs on the product. For the younger wrestlers, having a chip on their shoulder as he did should push them to maximize their minutes.
Although Punk states he hates the repetitions of the same main event two years in a row. But “if you can make it this good, who am I to say it’s bad?” Particularly because of how well WWE has done in terms of business between WrestleManias.
Punk believes the original plans were for Punk to take on Seth Rollins for the World Heavyweight Championship in the main event of Night 1. When Helwani asked if Punk would have been content, he suggested he would have been because of how he approaches wrestling from a booker’s mindset (more on that later).
All In and Real Glass
Jovially, Punk talks about the events that led to his AEW exit. There was no one to pick Punk from the airport so he went on an “adventure” on the London Underground. While he joked it was fun, in the same breath Punk says it’s “irresponsible to leave someone stranded at the airport”.
When Jack Perry in the pre-show commented “Real glass”, Punk was watching. Preceding this, Punk says on the second Collison episode, Tony Schiavone came to Punk because Jack Perry was “cussing out” multiple staff, including a doctor.
Punk says he did not want to be involved. “Dude isn’t supposed to be here.” Punk’s approach was you need to handle it, or I will. Punk was asked to handle it.
Perry wanted to smash the window of a rental car with a pipe for an angle. Punk said that everyone had told Jack no. Punk told Perry no also and explained the logic that if Perry destroyed a rental car, then the rental company might decide to not rent it again to pro wrestlers. Plus, the safety aspect that comes with working with real glass. Punk stated he spoke calmly, saying if you want to do this, do it Wednesday.
Punk acknowledged as a younger kid he had taken this kind of stuff personally and might have gotten fired up about someone telling him what to do.
Back to All In, Punk says he told Tony Khan to handle it. Punk claims Tony said: “What do you want me to do?”
Nothing happened and Punk in his words, which he repeated several times in this section, was going to do something AEW would not like.
Punk Did Something
Punk’s side of things is, that when Jack came back through the curtain, Punk said he questioned Jack:
“Why do you have to do this dumb internet sh#t?”.
Jack said to do something about it. Punk’s response:
“I thought I was doing the responsible thing… I just choked someone a little bit.”
Things were then broken up.
Punk said he competed in the opening match of All In due to his respect for Samoa Joe, Jerry Lynn as the road agent, Paul Turner the referee, and the fans. Afterward, in his locker room, Punk said he asked if he could watch the rest of the card before security came to see him. Punk says he left without a fuss and got Nando’s for “the boys”.
Tony Khan and Business
Punk says that he told Tony Khan, after releasing Jack Perry from a bit of choking,
“You’re a clown, I quit.” CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
This was the last time he spoke to Tony Khan. Punk says he did not feel he did anything to make Tony fear for his life. Punk believes there is a concerted enough to slander and ruin his character. At its core, this for Punk is where issues came in. Punk said that he felt some were trying to dim their top star out of jealousy and only hurting the company in the process.
When asked about Tony Khan, Punk’s truth is “he’s not a boss, but a nice guy” and this is a detriment, in his head, to AEW’s business.
Elsewhere, when discussing Khan, Punk states after Brawl Out, it would have been easier for Khan to release him. Instead. Punk says Tony’s idea was two separate shows and Punk suggested that it would not work, partly due to business.
A huge talking point from the chat is Punk repeatedly talks and emphasizes “wrestling is about making money”. Punk’s mindset is always on wrestling as a business. He describes how he cannot turn off the wrestling booker in his head. For Punk, there was and is a clear conflict in his mind between what AEW wants to do and what WWE is doing.
Not a Sustainable Business
Punk thought he was coming into AEW to help and hopefully teach. Punk felt he was brought in for “other reasons”.
CM Punk’s views of the business are a recurring theme throughout this interview. The business is about money. Punk even questions if AEW is about having good matches as their focus. Something indirectly connects to the indy mindset twice.
First, it uses an anecdote of going to an indie show and wrestling asking Punk what he could do better. Punk stated that just saying to sell more and flip less is a preference, “a flavour of ice cream”. The fact the house was sold out to Punk was what was important.
Secondly, Punk questioned Helwani on the “loaded question” of AEW being successful. Punk says there are different metrics. Punk hints that the mindset of AEW is caught in the indy mindset which was his focus at the start of his career rather than being on TV where things are different. While saying there is nothing wrong with this, he then says that’s a different business to what he wants to do.
The soundbite that will likely be used by anti-AEW commentors:
“If you’re some goof saying you had a five-star match and the building is a quarter full, we’re not in the same business.” CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
Punk believes AEW will exist as long as Tony keeps putting money into it. It was not the alternative he believed wrestling needed as a “last chance”.
Punk repeatedly gives the impression that AEW caters to a niche market. When talking about the MJF feud, Punk said MJF’s biggest mistake was catering to the internet audience. Before this in the first hour, Punk stated WWE’s “audience is wider than the internet”.
The Hangman “Worker’s Right” Comment
Punk stated he is more offended by insider terms of wrestling being thrown around than swearing. So, when “Hangman” Adam Page commented on protecting AEW from Punk, the issue came in that what Page said was not agreed with Punk in advance.
Punk stated that Hangman went “off-script”. Page did not say any of the things they discussed backstage. In the moment, Punk could hardly hear Page. Punk’s view is Hangman wasted TV time and money by slandering him.
Punk says he asked professionally why this happened and Punk claims Page said he believed Punk had one of his friends fired. With a lawyer, Punk went to Tony Khan and felt this was a profession. Respect for Punk is the default. Punk, hinting at The Elite, suggests they based their opinion on his based on what one person said.
“Everything went off the rails from there.”
CM Punk, The MMA Hour
The All Out Media Scrum
“Top three CM Punk promos.” CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
Interesting that Punk referred to the reporters at the AEW media scrum with air quotations and commented that some of these reporters, in his mind, do not fact-check and listen to what their wrestler friends say. He described it as high school, “Mean Girls” and cliquey.
When Helwani brings up Tony Khan sitting uncomfortably, Punk says it was nothing Tony had not heard before. Punk again put responsibility for not being stopped on Tony.
“Should have handled it.” CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
This will prove a controversial aspect of this interview in the following days, where and who has responsibility for which actions. Who did and who did not do something.
NDAs and Controversy
Punk did not go into the details of Brawl Out, but his phrasing of how he did not have to sign an NDA because he did nothing wrong will again be gunpowder. Yet, Punk said he has nothing to hide, but then won’t talk about it because there is an NDA in place.
When asked why there is an NDA, Punk again puts focus on Tony Khan. Punk said he felt uncomfortable talking about the topic. While regretting the the way it was handled, particularly the scrum, which he felt was “cringe”, Punk acknowledged he did one when he returned to WWE because it was fitting. His issue is the merits of wrestling journalists.
There is a difference between what Punk says he can say and what you want to say. Punk on the one hand does not like how things have grown and how it presents him, yet states from the controversy he has and will make money from it.
“Just Let Me Go”, but His Return
At this point during his AEW run, Punk said “yeah” when Helwani asked if he would have been happy to be let go.
It was not what AEW was sold to him as. For six months, Punk said that no one talked to him. Punk paid for his surgeries and only had contact with AEW’s Dr Sampson.
Why return to AEW? Punk said he had a lot of friends in the company and that Tony would not release him. Punk’s mindset was to do some good, do some fun shows, and feature some wrestlers he supported, but ideally, he would have rather not returned at all.
Collison for Punk was the best of a bad situation. At this high level, Punk said it was supposed to be fun. Punk said his contract had a year left. At no point did he feel like it would work.
“It’s not the way you facilitate things.” CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
From the start, Punk said that he felt The Elite never wanted him in AEW due to interactions and the way things were handled.
Money on the Table
Throughout, Punk’s booker mindset is revisited. When discussing throughout history previous backstage fights that then led to big feuds that made money, as well as in other sports like the NHL, he hinted that the end of Brawl Out was not capitalized on.
When talking about his “counterfeit bucks” line in his Collison return, Punk referenced calling out Paul Heyman in his pipebomb promo as a parallel. In Punk’s mindset, everything in his mind was related to television, yet “the magic of CM Punk” of blurring the lines. Earlier, Punk said he enjoyed making the fans think audibles had been called and making fans believe there was controversy.
Elsewhere, Punk acknowledges that guys like him and The Rock can break rules. Is that fair? Punk says maybe but justifies it from the booker’s mindset. If someone is going to do something, it needs to be as good as it can be rather than for no point.
Highlights of AEW
Something that will not get much discussion is that Punk said the positives outweigh the negatives.
CM Punk said he made a lot of friends. He got to do cool stuff like work with Sting, which he never considered would be a possibility in his career. However, this was as much as was explored.
In the end, Punk emphasized that he genuinely enjoyed his time, but has to be brutally honest from his perspective. Punk described what he did with MJF as “head and shoulders above the rest”. The talent in AEW is unbelievable, but the controversial thoughts will be the focus.
No Regrets, But One
Punk has no regrets about shooting on how between ending his Ring of Honor run and coming to AEW, it was a return “home” and implying his WWE run was not wrestling. In Punk’s mind, this was catering too much to the niche audience of AEW.
Punk has no regrets about his return because of the friends he has made. Brodie King, FTR, Danhausen, Darby Allin, Sting and more. Despite the shadow cast by the fallout of Brawl Out and since Punk believes he imparted some good.
Punk also references he is still learning and that he wants to give back to wrestling.
Speaking of regrets, Punk mentioned Colt Cabana, after their fall out, coming to speak to him pre-All Out scrum and trying to talk to Punk. Punk responded saying he would not respond without a lawyer. There are no regrets and no chance it seems that that friendship will be healed.
Again, referencing the Hangman promo, Punk said he had no issue with Hangman standing up for his friend but resented that Hangman would take that to TV and “jeopardize” their business and Punk’s ability to draw. It’s a sticking point that was a constant theme and sticking point hill that Punk’s willing to die on.
If Punk does not headline a Wrestlemania, he’s fine with that also.
Even during his UFC run, Punk acknowledges he should not have done it, but now he laughs at it. He made the weight, the walk, and is proud of himself because he was at his worst personally.
The only thing Punk said he might regret was talking about AEW In.
Moving Past, Being at Peace
“I woke up this morning.”
CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
Throughout the interview Punk seems relaxed, smiling, and open to answering questions, even when he acknowledges the answers will likely frustrate some. At yet to Helwani, Punk seems at peace with himself and the perceptions of Punk. In his mind, Punk believes despite the negativity, he is happy to wake up and enjoy what he has.
Punk presents the way he responded to things in the past as a trauma response from a broken home and a difficult childhood. Although Punk repeatedly talks about the slander and reputation of the devil some fans and wrestling commentators are and the difficulties this causes him. Blurring the lines causes fans to view him in a certain way and his mindset is, being a good bad guy in the ring.
“I’m just a dude sitting here trying to have the time of my life.”
CM Punk, The MMA Hour.
For the full interview, you may watch it on “The MMA Hour” YouTube Channel:
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